Aidan Kehoe writes:

 > In this case they are. If a language environment uses a feature that we
 > *cannot* provide, in the normal scheme of things, then it is broken.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  We can provide it, and do
(now that you've added those input methods).  The bug was in the
packages, and always was in the packages.  You've fixed that bug in
the packages, in the packages.  What more do you want?

I agree that I18N is important.  So write tests for I18N features that
the *core* claims to, or "should", provide.

 >  > If you consider a language environment to be broken if the default
 >  > input method is unavailable, you have two choices: move the support
 >  > into the core (which I will veto), or move the language environment
 >  > into the packages so that consistency can be maintained.
 > 
 > I would love to have the latter as an option, but 21.4 doesn't
 > seriously support [various stuff].

I don't get your point.  21.4 won't have its language environment
stuff moved to the packages, ever, anyway.  We're discussing 21.5 here.

 >  >  >  > Fix the tests to be skipped, not failed, if the input methods are
 >  >  >  > missing, please. Skip-Test-Unless will make loud enough noises to
 >  >  >  > warn the user; it doesn't need to fail, too.
 > 
 > Skip-Test-Unless is what happens when the packages are not installed, and
 > the user is to interpret it then as meaning that all is well.

Which is the correct interpretation here, too.  As you say yourself:

 > The user doesn't care that much about the input method.

So, you see, it's not an error.

 > And Christ, a test failure that is trivially resolved is not that
 > fucking important.

Asking users to change their environment is *not* a resolution of an
XEmacs bug, it's working around an XEmacs bug.  There is no need for a
workaround, you can fix this once and for all in any of several ways.

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Aidan Kehoe writes:

 > No, here they should. Those tests are there because we had had one of the
 > language environments specify latin-5-prefix as its input method in 1999;

You're allowed to reference things that are undefined in Lisp code.
Such references are not breakage.

Eg, by an obvious extension of your logic, we should have test failures
because ispell isn't installed, too!  In the core tests, features that
depend on external support may warn that the support is unavailable,
but they should not fail.  Packages *are* external support from the
point of view of tests/automated.

If you consider a language environment to be broken if the default
input method is unavailable, you have two choices: move the support
into the core (which I will veto), or move the language environment
into the packages so that consistency can be maintained.

 > If you have a suggestion for a way to check for this error

It's a problem for some users, maybe even a showstopper.  However, it
is not an error in the XEmacs binary which is being tested.

 > without a dependency on the packages being current, please to be coming
 > forward with it.

I already made it:

 >  > Fix the tests to be skipped, not failed, if the input methods are
 >  > missing, please. Skip-Test-Unless will make loud enough noises to warn
 >  > the user; it doesn't need to fail, too.

This could be improved by changing test-harness to add a final warning
if tests were skipped, something like "Tests were skipped because
external support for them such as system commands or Lisp packages
were not found.  These commands and packages are expected to be
installed on typical systems supporting XEmacs, and you may wish to
check what's missing and install it if appropriate for your use.

Here's another: improve the run-time error message to something like
"The %s input method was not found.  You may need to install the
`leim' package, or in some cases an external program."

Here's yet another: let's provide an check-emacs-environment package,
which tests for external support needed for full use of various
features.

Here's an idea.  Once we have that package, we could make Mike provide
tests for Dired support of the user's locale!

Here's one more: fix the runtime language environment code to examine
the LEIM registry for input methods that support that environment and
present that list to the user, rather than specify a default input
method.

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Aidan, you know anything about this?

Testing Interpreted Lisp

FAIL: Assertion failed: (assoc language-input-method
input-method-alist)
SKIP: "check that IM latin-5-prefix can be activated" BECAUSE "input
method unavailable"
FAIL: Assertion failed: (assoc language-input-method
input-method-alist)
SKIP: "check that IM latin-4-prefix can be activated" BECAUSE "input
method unavailable"
FAIL: Assertion failed: (assoc language-input-method
input-method-alist)
SKIP: "check that IM latin-4-prefix can be activated" BECAUSE "input
method unavailable"
FAIL: Assertion failed: (assoc language-input-method
input-method-alist)
SKIP: "check that IM latin-4-prefix can be activated" BECAUSE "input
method unavailable"
FAIL: Assertion failed: (assoc language-input-method
input-method-alist)
SKIP: "check that IM latin-4-prefix can be activated" BECAUSE "input
method unavailable"
FAIL: Assertion failed: (assoc language-input-method
input-method-alist)
SKIP: "check that IM latin-4-prefix can be activated" BECAUSE "input
method unavailable"
KNOWN BUG: Assertion failed: (string-match "^;;;###coding system:
escape-quoted" (buffer-substring nil nil byte-compile-result))

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